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	<title>Comments on: Revisiting Executive Pay</title>
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		<title>By: prachi</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertsalomon.com/2007/03/28/revisiting-executive-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>prachi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 04:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sonny</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertsalomon.com/2007/03/28/revisiting-executive-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 00:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertsalomon.biz/?p=7#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s some promising development - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=a49zPAWGnTEY&amp;refer=home&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=a49zPAWGnTEY&amp;refer=home&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s some promising development &#8211; <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#038;sid=a49zPAWGnTEY&#038;refer=home" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#038;sid=a49zPAWGnTEY&#038;refer=home</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barnett</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertsalomon.com/2007/03/28/revisiting-executive-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertsalomon.biz/?p=7#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  So now we&#039;re counting post-employment pay into compensation?  So let&#039;s add Jack Welch&#039;s book deals, etc. into his salary base.  I don&#039;t get the relevance, unless we&#039;re turning the argument into what drives politicians to seek office, and concluding that it&#039;s ex post pay?  Then why do we get old guys running for office?  If you try to test this argument, then you&#039;d have to argue that you shouldn&#039;t run for office if you&#039;re quite old (McCain; Dole; Reagan) because you don&#039;t have time to recoup your money in speaking fees in the years thereafter.  And I don&#039;t even know how we&#039;d explain Jimmy Carter and his pursuit of non-profit work.

But let&#039;s get beyond this &quot;ludicrous&quot; point and to the contention that if they &quot;create&quot; all this wealth, then they deserve a chunk of it.  I could pretty well agree with that.  But here&#039;s the problem:  do they really create the wealth?  It&#039;s &quot;ludicrous&quot; to place the success (or failure) of an entire multi-billion dollar organization in the (often-changing) hands of a single person -- no matter how many hero stories we were exposed to as a kid.  Academic research has shown that a sizeable portion of firm performance can be explained simply by industry structure -- a superstar CEO busting his hump in the airline industry is simply less likely to turn massive profits, relative to a (luke)warm-body CEO in oil right now.  That&#039;s not to say there&#039;s not within-industry variance -- there is.  But can we tie this to one person&#039;s decision-making expertise?  OK, let&#039;s go all &quot;ludicrous&quot; and heroic and say we can.  What of the bad decisions?  Shouldn&#039;t the CEO lose money?  They don&#039;t -- they just get $10mil instead of $15mil. Or $100 mil instead of $150 mil. Look at the NYT pieces -- look at the graph -- it&#039;s a blob, not a straight 45 degree line relating pay to performance.  Besides, if you do have this straight-forward connection, you encourage accounting gimmickry and short-term focus -- why invest in R&amp;D this year, if it will make your numbers look bad, and not have potential payoff until 10 years from now (when most CEOs will be gone)?  Or better yet, if pay is all about organizational size (assets under management), then you get consolidation crazes -- and conglomerates are a mess, and acquisitions tend to fail. . . . and on and on.

Look, there&#039;s just so many problems when you get beyond the easy and obvious point that pay should be tied to performance.  Nobody&#039;s arguing against that.  What I&#039;m arguing is that pay is not tied to performance.  And the notion that they deserve hundreds of multiples of worker pay because they work harder is just ludicrous.  There was a show once where they had CEOs try to fill some of the line functions in their massive corporations.  They did miserably -- they found out that the low-pay jobs take time, effort, and trouble.  Read &quot;Nickle and Dimed&quot;, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  So now we&#8217;re counting post-employment pay into compensation?  So let&#8217;s add Jack Welch&#8217;s book deals, etc. into his salary base.  I don&#8217;t get the relevance, unless we&#8217;re turning the argument into what drives politicians to seek office, and concluding that it&#8217;s ex post pay?  Then why do we get old guys running for office?  If you try to test this argument, then you&#8217;d have to argue that you shouldn&#8217;t run for office if you&#8217;re quite old (McCain; Dole; Reagan) because you don&#8217;t have time to recoup your money in speaking fees in the years thereafter.  And I don&#8217;t even know how we&#8217;d explain Jimmy Carter and his pursuit of non-profit work.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s get beyond this &#8220;ludicrous&#8221; point and to the contention that if they &#8220;create&#8221; all this wealth, then they deserve a chunk of it.  I could pretty well agree with that.  But here&#8217;s the problem:  do they really create the wealth?  It&#8217;s &#8220;ludicrous&#8221; to place the success (or failure) of an entire multi-billion dollar organization in the (often-changing) hands of a single person &#8212; no matter how many hero stories we were exposed to as a kid.  Academic research has shown that a sizeable portion of firm performance can be explained simply by industry structure &#8212; a superstar CEO busting his hump in the airline industry is simply less likely to turn massive profits, relative to a (luke)warm-body CEO in oil right now.  That&#8217;s not to say there&#8217;s not within-industry variance &#8212; there is.  But can we tie this to one person&#8217;s decision-making expertise?  OK, let&#8217;s go all &#8220;ludicrous&#8221; and heroic and say we can.  What of the bad decisions?  Shouldn&#8217;t the CEO lose money?  They don&#8217;t &#8212; they just get $10mil instead of $15mil. Or $100 mil instead of $150 mil. Look at the NYT pieces &#8212; look at the graph &#8212; it&#8217;s a blob, not a straight 45 degree line relating pay to performance.  Besides, if you do have this straight-forward connection, you encourage accounting gimmickry and short-term focus &#8212; why invest in R&#038;D this year, if it will make your numbers look bad, and not have potential payoff until 10 years from now (when most CEOs will be gone)?  Or better yet, if pay is all about organizational size (assets under management), then you get consolidation crazes &#8212; and conglomerates are a mess, and acquisitions tend to fail. . . . and on and on.</p>
<p>Look, there&#8217;s just so many problems when you get beyond the easy and obvious point that pay should be tied to performance.  Nobody&#8217;s arguing against that.  What I&#8217;m arguing is that pay is not tied to performance.  And the notion that they deserve hundreds of multiples of worker pay because they work harder is just ludicrous.  There was a show once where they had CEOs try to fill some of the line functions in their massive corporations.  They did miserably &#8212; they found out that the low-pay jobs take time, effort, and trouble.  Read &#8220;Nickle and Dimed&#8221;, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Belote</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertsalomon.com/2007/03/28/revisiting-executive-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Belote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertsalomon.biz/?p=7#comment-6</guid>
		<description>First off, the argument that because the President only makes $400k CEO&#039;s should be happy with that much is ludicrous.  If you look at the salary of a President for the 10 years following his presidency you will find not one who has made under 7 figures from book deals and speaking engagements (see Clinton and Bush Sr.).

I feel CEO pay is excessive to a certain extent but if a CEO boosts a company&#039;s revenue from $100 million to $400 million who&#039;s to say he&#039;s not entitled to a nice $10-15 million payday.  He added tremendous value to the company and made lots of other people rich.  Also, who&#039;s to say that that CEO hasn&#039;t been with the company for 20 years and worked his way up the ranks.  In that case, he&#039;s put in his time and is due a large payday for his dedication and hard work.  It&#039;s what everyone strives to do in their everyday lives, that final big payout.

There&#039;s also the economies of scale to think about.  CEO&#039;s with large compensation typically run huge corporations.  They just announced that the top trader for this year will earn over $1 Billion dollars yet no one is knocking him because his fund earned $3.5 Billion.  So I say why shouldn&#039;t CEO&#039;s be paid accordingly?  The realization is that when dealing with Billion dollar companies, the top people are going to be paid well.  Just like the heads of hedge funds are going to be paid more if they have  more money under management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, the argument that because the President only makes $400k CEO&#8217;s should be happy with that much is ludicrous.  If you look at the salary of a President for the 10 years following his presidency you will find not one who has made under 7 figures from book deals and speaking engagements (see Clinton and Bush Sr.).</p>
<p>I feel CEO pay is excessive to a certain extent but if a CEO boosts a company&#8217;s revenue from $100 million to $400 million who&#8217;s to say he&#8217;s not entitled to a nice $10-15 million payday.  He added tremendous value to the company and made lots of other people rich.  Also, who&#8217;s to say that that CEO hasn&#8217;t been with the company for 20 years and worked his way up the ranks.  In that case, he&#8217;s put in his time and is due a large payday for his dedication and hard work.  It&#8217;s what everyone strives to do in their everyday lives, that final big payout.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also the economies of scale to think about.  CEO&#8217;s with large compensation typically run huge corporations.  They just announced that the top trader for this year will earn over $1 Billion dollars yet no one is knocking him because his fund earned $3.5 Billion.  So I say why shouldn&#8217;t CEO&#8217;s be paid accordingly?  The realization is that when dealing with Billion dollar companies, the top people are going to be paid well.  Just like the heads of hedge funds are going to be paid more if they have  more money under management.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barnett</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertsalomon.com/2007/03/28/revisiting-executive-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 00:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertsalomon.biz/?p=7#comment-5</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s a fundamental problem in perspective that&#039;s going unchallenged here.  As we should, we non-sociopaths tend to feel uncomfortable when one person such as a CEO sucks so much money out of an organization while others -- particularly those line workers who actually produce the good or service -- get so little.  We have a real problem that there&#039;s often even an inverse relationship -- the more the CEO can trim the payroll, the more money he can make.  How do we deal with this cognitive dissonance?  Well, we say that the CEO works really hard, by golly, so he should get a big paycheck.  That&#039;s crap -- sure, he works hard.  But so do others; often with much less job flexibility, perqs, assistance, etc.  And there&#039;s only so many hours in the day anyway -- he&#039;s not working more than 24 hours; even if he was, then this would cap his pay at 3 times the average worker&#039;s -- say, $120k/yr.  So that can&#039;t justify it. You could say he works smarter, if not harder.  OK, that seems to be crap, too, if you use education as a proxy.  Those of us who teach the future execs arguably are smarter (at least by credential), and trust me, our pay is not at CEO level.  So you could argue that maybe working smarter has nothing to do with academic credentials; these CEO types are just better at seeing through risky situations and finding winners, and so their intelligence is market related.  Let&#039;s delve into that -- that&#039;s the point I was headed toward (by the way, there are tons more ways that scholars have tried to make sense of CEO pay, such as tournament models and such, but the real bottom line is that they get paid that much because they can! -- it&#039;s a club at that level, with CEOs rewarding boards, and boards rewarding CEOs, and a whole lot of hubris and self-delusion that keeps it all justified; plus there&#039;s the funny math where everyone has to be paid above average, which keeps raising the average baseline figure).

Let&#039;s try to justify CEO pay, then, on the basis of the risks they take -- they&#039;re just smart risk takers, and smart risk-taking is immensely valuable for firms and their shareholders, so CEOs should be rewarded accordingly.  Well, that&#039;s crap, too.  One can&#039;t justify the huge rock-star incomes of CEOs on the basis of risk, unless these CEOs are risking their own money -- and they aren&#039;t.  We are willing to allow folks in our society to earn huge sums of money, and feel OK about it, if they take huge risks -- these folks are entrepeneurs, and since they put their own money at risk to get their businesses going, it&#039;s OK for them to be heavily rewarded, up to and including the Bill Gates level.  CEOs don&#039;t put their own money at risk -- they put ours at risk.  You may (not as often as you should) see a CEO&#039;s pay cut when his firm does poorly -- say, from $25 mil to only $20 mil -- but you won&#039;t ever see him write a check for $25 mil to the company to cover those losses.  So he doesn&#039;t deserve the level of reward that goes with high risk.  You could argue that his stock in the firm goes down, and so he loses that way.  No -- even if we forget about option backdating fraud, these are options, and he has put no money up (or gotten sweetheart loans where he&#039;s had to put up a fraction of it), and so he need not exercise these options if they&#039;re in negative territory.  You could finally argue that he&#039;s losing the potential value of these options, had they went higher, but again, this is punishment only by lack of reward, not by loss of one&#039;s own money, and going into negative territory, as entrepreneurs could.  The worst he&#039;ll do is only make a few dozen times what the average worker does -- and along the way, he&#039;ll get plenty of perqs.  Which brings up the final point I&#039;ll blog about right now, and that is the notion that if Firm X doesn&#039;t pay X jillion dollars for CEO Y, then Firm Z will.  Let Firm Z suffer the winner&#039;s curse -- the odds are fairly even (see, for example: &lt;a href=&quot;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=968464).&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=968464).&lt;/a&gt;  But more to the point, the argument that you can&#039;t attract a competent CEO without paying them rock star money is crazy.  Suppose you&#039;re the senior VP, and you&#039;re getting paid, say, $300k.  The firm offers you the CEO position, but says you won&#039;t get a raise -- you&#039;ll get a nicer office, a nicer title, of course a nice resume boost, and so forth.  Would you turn it down?  I don&#039;t think so.  There&#039;s enough attraction in being the head honcho that many folks would do it, even without the high pay day. Not that the current administration doesn&#039;t completely disprove my point, but if we can attract a slew of folks to be US president at the current rate of $400k, which is twice what it was in the Clinton years, then surely we can attract CEOs, from the ranks of very eager experienced MBAs, without paying them tens of millions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a fundamental problem in perspective that&#8217;s going unchallenged here.  As we should, we non-sociopaths tend to feel uncomfortable when one person such as a CEO sucks so much money out of an organization while others &#8212; particularly those line workers who actually produce the good or service &#8212; get so little.  We have a real problem that there&#8217;s often even an inverse relationship &#8212; the more the CEO can trim the payroll, the more money he can make.  How do we deal with this cognitive dissonance?  Well, we say that the CEO works really hard, by golly, so he should get a big paycheck.  That&#8217;s crap &#8212; sure, he works hard.  But so do others; often with much less job flexibility, perqs, assistance, etc.  And there&#8217;s only so many hours in the day anyway &#8212; he&#8217;s not working more than 24 hours; even if he was, then this would cap his pay at 3 times the average worker&#8217;s &#8212; say, $120k/yr.  So that can&#8217;t justify it. You could say he works smarter, if not harder.  OK, that seems to be crap, too, if you use education as a proxy.  Those of us who teach the future execs arguably are smarter (at least by credential), and trust me, our pay is not at CEO level.  So you could argue that maybe working smarter has nothing to do with academic credentials; these CEO types are just better at seeing through risky situations and finding winners, and so their intelligence is market related.  Let&#8217;s delve into that &#8212; that&#8217;s the point I was headed toward (by the way, there are tons more ways that scholars have tried to make sense of CEO pay, such as tournament models and such, but the real bottom line is that they get paid that much because they can! &#8212; it&#8217;s a club at that level, with CEOs rewarding boards, and boards rewarding CEOs, and a whole lot of hubris and self-delusion that keeps it all justified; plus there&#8217;s the funny math where everyone has to be paid above average, which keeps raising the average baseline figure).</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s try to justify CEO pay, then, on the basis of the risks they take &#8212; they&#8217;re just smart risk takers, and smart risk-taking is immensely valuable for firms and their shareholders, so CEOs should be rewarded accordingly.  Well, that&#8217;s crap, too.  One can&#8217;t justify the huge rock-star incomes of CEOs on the basis of risk, unless these CEOs are risking their own money &#8212; and they aren&#8217;t.  We are willing to allow folks in our society to earn huge sums of money, and feel OK about it, if they take huge risks &#8212; these folks are entrepeneurs, and since they put their own money at risk to get their businesses going, it&#8217;s OK for them to be heavily rewarded, up to and including the Bill Gates level.  CEOs don&#8217;t put their own money at risk &#8212; they put ours at risk.  You may (not as often as you should) see a CEO&#8217;s pay cut when his firm does poorly &#8212; say, from $25 mil to only $20 mil &#8212; but you won&#8217;t ever see him write a check for $25 mil to the company to cover those losses.  So he doesn&#8217;t deserve the level of reward that goes with high risk.  You could argue that his stock in the firm goes down, and so he loses that way.  No &#8212; even if we forget about option backdating fraud, these are options, and he has put no money up (or gotten sweetheart loans where he&#8217;s had to put up a fraction of it), and so he need not exercise these options if they&#8217;re in negative territory.  You could finally argue that he&#8217;s losing the potential value of these options, had they went higher, but again, this is punishment only by lack of reward, not by loss of one&#8217;s own money, and going into negative territory, as entrepreneurs could.  The worst he&#8217;ll do is only make a few dozen times what the average worker does &#8212; and along the way, he&#8217;ll get plenty of perqs.  Which brings up the final point I&#8217;ll blog about right now, and that is the notion that if Firm X doesn&#8217;t pay X jillion dollars for CEO Y, then Firm Z will.  Let Firm Z suffer the winner&#8217;s curse &#8212; the odds are fairly even (see, for example: <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=968464)." rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=968464" rel="nofollow">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=968464</a>).  But more to the point, the argument that you can&#8217;t attract a competent CEO without paying them rock star money is crazy.  Suppose you&#8217;re the senior VP, and you&#8217;re getting paid, say, $300k.  The firm offers you the CEO position, but says you won&#8217;t get a raise &#8212; you&#8217;ll get a nicer office, a nicer title, of course a nice resume boost, and so forth.  Would you turn it down?  I don&#8217;t think so.  There&#8217;s enough attraction in being the head honcho that many folks would do it, even without the high pay day. Not that the current administration doesn&#8217;t completely disprove my point, but if we can attract a slew of folks to be US president at the current rate of $400k, which is twice what it was in the Clinton years, then surely we can attract CEOs, from the ranks of very eager experienced MBAs, without paying them tens of millions.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Sominsky</title>
		<link>http://blog.robertsalomon.com/2007/03/28/revisiting-executive-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Sominsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 20:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.robertsalomon.biz/?p=7#comment-4</guid>
		<description>I really enjoyed the post. I find your assessment of the present situation, and the complex balance of rewards to incentives to be very interesting. One thing I disagree with is the Economist’s assertion that the problem should be legislated. Legislation seldom proves to be a panacea in free-market flaws. Shareholders can take action by on their own accords by paying premiums for companies that have reasonable management compensation. This would allow compensation boards to offer options while maintaining an accord between short-term and long-term management incentives. An, of coarse, a firm with bloated management compensation structures can always be taken private if this is deemed to be detrimental to its intrinsic value. Furthermore, I perceive the search for talented managers to be a race to the top, not to the bottom. A competent CEO can bring returns to the company beyond his or her compensation. What incentive would this individual have to work for less money if he or she is aware of the value they add? Like you said, it’s a very complex issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed the post. I find your assessment of the present situation, and the complex balance of rewards to incentives to be very interesting. One thing I disagree with is the Economist’s assertion that the problem should be legislated. Legislation seldom proves to be a panacea in free-market flaws. Shareholders can take action by on their own accords by paying premiums for companies that have reasonable management compensation. This would allow compensation boards to offer options while maintaining an accord between short-term and long-term management incentives. An, of coarse, a firm with bloated management compensation structures can always be taken private if this is deemed to be detrimental to its intrinsic value. Furthermore, I perceive the search for talented managers to be a race to the top, not to the bottom. A competent CEO can bring returns to the company beyond his or her compensation. What incentive would this individual have to work for less money if he or she is aware of the value they add? Like you said, it’s a very complex issue.</p>
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